I have hunted elk where there are cattle several times and I would never bet the farm on identifying the tracks. On each foot of a deer and wild pig, you’ll find two toes which leave oblong and narrow shapes on ... Read more Pig Tracks – Learn to Identify Them When Hunting Pigs – Dec, 2020 Wild animals can be difficult to detect because of their instinctive behavior to avoid humans. Many people have learned to read wildlife tracks with remarkable skill for hunting purposes. A man and his son were bicycling in Rocky Mountain National Park last Saturday when they were stopped in their tracks by a herd of bull elk walking … To avoid this, make sure the mixture is as cold as possible by stirring some snow in while mixing. Deer and elk are members of the same family and have many things genetically in common. The coyote’s front foot is larger than the hind foot. All other rights reserved. The “big” toe of the bear foot is the outer one, not the inner one as with the human foot. L-202: Bats in Buildings: Proper Exclusion Techniques in New Mexico Whitetail Deer Wild Boar Mule Deer Bison Caribou Mose Elk Antelope In other words, they tend to be more blocky and somewhat less pointed. The abundance of them may leave you wondering whose track you found. First find a suitable track. Remove all sticks and debris around the track. To find more resources for your business, home, or family, visit the College of Agricultural, Consumer and Environmental Sciences on the World Wide Web at, Contents of publications may be freely reproduced for educational purposes. We provide immediate assistance if you discover a living or dead animal in your home. The smaller cows it's a little tough to tell but ORDINARILLY the "moo cows" won't use game trails. This method for making track casts is simple. However, in most cases, plaster of Paris is used to make track casts for “take home” souvenirs. The mammal guide. Once you have discovered the art of identifying wildlife tracks, you will probably never again pass a stream bank without instinctively looking to see what has passed by that area. is the Extension Wildlife Specialist at New Mexico State University. White-tailed deer are native to the United States, Canada, Mexico, Central America, and South America. Adult cattle tracks are large and blocky, and quite distinct. White-tail deer have also been introduced to New Zealand, Cuba, Jamaica, Hispaniola, Puerto Rico, Bermuda, Bahamas, Lesser Antilles, and some countries in Europe, such as Finland, the Czech Republic, and Serbia. Animals will leave good tracks under such controlled conditions. However, the hooves of bighorn sheep have straighter edges, and the tracks do not often take the traditional heart shape. Circular 561 In many cases you may not be able to identify the track you find because details of the animal’s feet are not present. They do appear rounded and have a curve to the front of the print but not as sharp as deer tracks. New Mexico State University is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer and educator. The tracks of fawns or yearlings tend to be about 1 inch long. A red deer hoof. His Extension program focuses on wildlife damage management, wildlife enterprises, and wildlife ecology and management education for youth and adults. There also are variations due to age and sex of the animal. Whereas the tracks of moose are deeper and longer when compared to an elk. In areas where elk share the same range with cattle, it can be difficult to distinguish the two. Frequently used wildlife paths or game trails are a common place to find tracks. Make a circle around the print with the 2 1/2 inch-wide strips of cardboard; attach the ends with paper clips. Dolly Parton's Stampede ligt op 1,7 km van NEW! Hogs, on the other hand, have similar tracks to deer, but the hooves are splayed more, and tend to have a rounder shape. New York: Doubleday and Co. Seton, E.T. The tracks shown here are for reference only, but will give a good starting point. Most hunters say that the tracks of elk are around three inches wide and four-inch long. Young pronghorn tracks are generally about 1 5/8 inches long. Generally the length of an adult elk track is between 4 and 4 3/4 inches. Moose tracks are easily identifiable by their shape and size. Some dog tracks may be easily confused with coyote tracks even when the tracks are well defined. Each half of the hoof print is bean-shaped. Fronts tracks of adult deer will be roughly 2 to 3 inches (5 to 8 cm) long, give or take. However, there are some areas, such as size and appearance, in which they significantly diverge. A thinner mixture gives you more time. Now fill the track with the plaster, covering the inside mold to a depth of 1 inch below the top of the cardboard. Raccoons have five toes on the front and hind feet. Shoot However, reading tracks is not easy. Their tracks measure 5-7” long, about the size of your hand. Photo by Terry Spivey, USDA Forest Service, Bugwood.org. For permission to use publications for other purposes, contact, College of Agricultural, Consumer, and Environmental Sciences, College of Agricultural, Consumer and Environmental Sciences (ACES), http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_l/L-202/welcome.html, http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_l/L-210/welcome.html, http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_l/L-211/welcome.html, Pocket Guide to the Native Bees of New Mexico, Pocket Guide to the Beneficial Insects of New Mexico. To keep yards and valuable plants safe, call on the wildlife experts at Trutech. Elk antlers are significantly larger than those of deer, and point upward at a steeper angle. Deer leaves heart-shaped tracks, while elk leaves tooth-shaped tracks that consist of two roundish, parallel-oriented halves of each hoof. 2005. By comparison, elk tracks are only about 4 inches long, and deer tracks are about 3 inches long. Elk leave a bit of themselves behind every day. 2005. One of the most fundamental skills a deer hunter must learn is how to “read” a deer track. Many hunters identify elk and moose by examining their tracks. “For deer, elk, and pretty much anything else with a hoof, the front feet are proportionally larger than the hinds on mature bucks– though this breaks down with younger animals. The track in the picture to the right is probably a cow elk track. Smaller tracks likely belong to … A lot of the time, after shooting a nice buck , I will return to the area and check the crop fields to see if … Preserving wildlife tracks can be both exciting and informative. Here’s a quick list of what may or may not mean an elk is waiting beyond the next rise.ScatIf you’re in elk country, then you’re going to run into elk droppings. This cast is called a negative cast. The same is true for the Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep and desert bighorn sheep. 1964. Scat is similar to deer scat, but much larger. Pamela 19-Jan-2013 22:36 I need help identifying scat that I found around my deer feeder so how can I send u a photo of it. Next, in the tin can mix the plaster of Paris with water while stirring with a stick until the mixture is the consistency of cream or pancake batter. Moose are the largest living member of the deer family (Cervidae) and fittingly bear the largest set of feet. Although pronghorn tracks are much like those of deer, the pronghorn track tends to be more narrow toward the front. The track is more rounded than that of the coyote or dog and shows no claw marks. The edge areas where two different habitat types meet probably provide the greatest potential for studying animal tracks. In general the front tracks are 3 1/2 inches wide, while the hind tracks are 7 inches long and 3 1/2 inches wide. There will be a few very well used trails that the cattle are using frequently. Tracks of an adult bighorn sheep are generally 3 1/2 inches long, while tracks of a bighorn lamb are generally 2 inches long. The art of tracking also allows wildlife biologists to identify habitats in which animals live and to conduct population surveys. London: The Macmillan Co. Cahalane, V.H. To pick up the cast after it is hard, cut around it with a knife, remove some dirt from under the edges all around the cast, then lift out the piece from a point well underneath the track. Tracks and trailcraft, 2nd ed. On the other end of the spectrum, elk employ a loud bugle call that echoes for miles. They are not quite as big as moose tracks but definitely bigger than deer tracks. Moose tracks are bigger than elk tracks. The width of tracks varies from 3 to more than 4 inches, and can be much greater in certain types of snow. Moose tracks have some taper to the sides and more 'pointy' than cattle tracks. Under rare circumstances it may be possible to cut around the track with your knife and lift it out intact. However, elk tracks are noticeably rounder. Often the “little” (inside) toe leaves no mark in dust or shallow mud, so the footprint appears to be four-toed. Anthony, H.E. For the field biologist, there may be an advantage in preserving for future study a clear record of wildlife tracks in a particular area. Red deer footprint in mud. When running, moose tracks often show dewclaws, as do other members of the deer family. © 2017 New Mexico State University - Board of Regents. As with other cats, the front foot is the larger, and the toes tend to spread widely when the animal is running. The illustrations and track characteristics listed below highlight a few key features that can be used to identify the tracks of deer from other hoofed mammals within the same size range. This is one of the most common and easiest ways used by the hunter to distinguish an elk from a moose. On soft soil, as in some woodlands, the toes are likely to be relatively more pointed. Tracks are the most overlooked of all deer sign. Murie, O.J. FRESH TRACKS TV DOWNLOAD EPISODES YOUTUBE CHANNEL Facebook Twitter youtube Instagram More options Contact us Close Menu Home Forums BIG GAME HUNTING Deer . Press the cardboard about 1/2 inch into the ground. Elk tracks are larger than deer tracks and smaller than moose tracks, but overlap in size with both deer and moose tracks. In North America, they are widely distributed east of the Rocky Mountains (elsewhere they have been mo… But young cattle leave a track that is often very similar to that of adult elk. All fields are required. Het Deer Tracks Retreat in Pigeon Forge!De oude molen ligt op 2,4 km afstand. When preserving tracks, you will also become more familiar with the characteristics of habitats in which animals live. Please complete the form below and a technician will contact you within 24 hours. Wild pigs damage crops and have hoofs, meaning knowing their tracks can help you to track them. Elk also leave distinctive wallows where they dig into Scat is similar to deer scat, but much larger. In some instances, it is impossible to differentiate the two sheep based on their tracks. Elk, Moose, and other large hoofed animals have much larger tracks. Bobcat tracks are fairly distinctive. When the plaster has been poured into the track, wait patiently for 10 minutes or more to allow it to set hard. Cahalane, V.H. Animal tracks and hunter signs. The round pad of the front foot may not always register and the claw marks are not always present. 1958. It can be ¾ inch long. Front tracks of an adult are about 4 inches long and wide. Original authors: Jon C. Boren, Extension Wildlife Specialist; and Byron D. Wright, Agriculture Specialist. In areas where elk share the same range with cattle, it can be difficult to distinguish the two. Cattle tracks are wider than elk tracks and the tip of the hoof is more rounded than an elk track. In such cases, look around for more distinctive tracks and for possible cow chips. Generally the length of an adult elk track is between 4 and 4 3/4 inches. Below are 8 hoofed mammal tracks, see if you can match up the track to the animal. New York: Lyons Press. (Print Friendly PDF). Elk tracks are longer and more robust than those of deer. Photo showing anatomy wanted. The following illustrations are designed to help you identify various species of wildlife by examining tracks. I've also been fooled between mule deer and domestic sheep. In addition, old tracks may be erased by smoothing this area over like a clean slate. Caribou and bison are more ovular in dimension. Several different characteristics are useful in differentiating the illustrated tracks. Meeting the mammals. Nail marks also are less prominent, and the tracks tend to follow a straight line more closely than those of dogs. He has degrees in wildlife and range management. The hind tracks in mud are 2 to 2 3/8 inches long and 1 1/2 to 1 7/8 inches wide. The track should be deep enough to produce a solid cast and clear enough to reproduce. We seek to improve the lives of New Mexicans, the nation, and the world through research, teaching, and extension. There is no distinction between white-tailed deer and mule deer tracks in this document. When you call Trutech®, you speak directly with a service representative – any time, no recording. Extension Wildlife specialist, Department of Extension Animal Sciences and Natural Resources, New Mexico State University. Thousands of new, … If the plaster is too thick so that it doesn’t flow readily, it may dry too quickly and fail to reproduce some details of the feet. In determining whether deer vs elk are the more serious yard pest, damage to lawns and gardens is the deciding factor. In these areas, differentiating the tracks of deer from tracks of other species can be much more difficult. Field book of North American mammals. The appearance of ragged, torn greenery two to three feet off the ground is a sure sign of deer foraging. Jaeger, E. 2009. Find deer tracks stock images in HD and millions of other royalty-free stock photos, illustrations and vectors in the Shutterstock collection. Whitefish, MT: Kessinger Publishing. http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_l/L-202/welcome.html, L-210: Rabbits and Their Control in New Mexico Deer: Deer, like moose, have two toes that curve sharply together forming almost a heart shape print. • Strips of waxed cardboard (cut from milk carton) to make a collar 2 1/2 inches wide by 12 to 15 inches long, • Plaster of Paris purchased at hardware stores, drug stores, or hobby shops, • Two tin cans (one for water and one for mixing). Simply brush off the mud and dirt after the cast has had a day or more to harden. For the sports enthusiast or backpacker, who might make a hobby of tracking wild animals, it may be worthwhile to take home some souvenir tracks. College of agricultural, Consumer and Environmental Sciences, New Mexico State University, Author: Extension Wildlife specialist, Department of Extension Animal Sciences and Natural Resources, New Mexico State University. Mountain lion tracks rarely show the claws. For permission to use publications for other purposes, contact firstname.lastname@example.org or the authors listed on the publication. Generally the length of an adult deer track is between 2 3/8 and 3 1/4 inches. These species can’t always be differentiated by their tracks. The ball pad of the bobcat is distinct from that of the coyote in that the front border is two-lobed. With a little practice you can determine the necessary consistency for creating a positive cast that is a duplicate of the original track. New York: Houghton Mifflin Company. There is also some difference between deer and elk sounds. The prints are smaller in size than a moose measuring 2-3.5”. Coyote tracks tend to be more oval-shaped and compact than those of dogs. Elk tracks are definitely larger and rounder in outline than those of deer, so there is usually no difficulty in distinguishing them. POk3s Key differences between deer and elk include: Deer tracks are somewhat heart-shaped, with each half of the hoof coming to a definite point. As members of the deer family, elk have cloven hooves. Pay special attention to characteristics such as track size, shape of track, and presence or absence of claw marks. Each half of the hoof print is bean-shaped. It should not be dropped in with any force. New York: Doubleday and Co. All other rights reserved. http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_l/L-211/welcome.html. Contents of publications may be freely reproduced for educational purposes. You can see that it was walking through clover, a nutrient rich elk food. It is not wise to attempt to pick up the cast too soon. The raccoon track is distinctive and easily identified. To find more resources for your business, home, or family, visit the College of Agricultural, Consumer and Environmental Sciences on the World Wide Web at aces.nmsu.edu. Note the differing patterns in the heel pads of the front and hind tracks in the figure. For a positive cast (which can be made at home), form a waxed cardboard mold and fill with plaster of Paris mixture to the top of the mold. If you know of a place where animals habitually travel, as on a trail or near a den tree, then you can prepare a smooth area by sweeping the ground with a tree branch. For sake of argument, deer, moose, elk, pronghorn, and to some extent wild sheep have a more defined heart shape. Elk tracks are more rounded, with no sharp points. This will have to be done before the plaster mixture gets too hard, or the plaster will crack from the pressure exerted from the negative cast. Both are grazing pests that consume many types of leaves and grasses, but deer’s wider geographical range and greater ability to find food through smell make them the more likely cause of ruined plants. Elk tracks are more rounded, with no sharp points. Tracks left by fawns are generally 1 3/8 inches long. Many of the tracks ( such as different species of deer, antelope and sheep ) will take time to recognize and make a correct identification as they look If you need immediate assistance, please call 800-842-7296. Whitefish, MT: Kessinger Publishing. Deer … Because each situation is somewhat different, you must be prepared to use your ingenuity to interpret what you see. Subsequently, the sheep tracks shown are titled “bighorn sheep” to eliminate any complications. If too thin or watery, it will run all over the place, taking a long time to harden. There are certain bleats they use to communicate with each other, but humans rarely hear them. Cow elk tracks are more slender and pointed than a big bull’s. Elk can stand five feet tall at the shoulder. Front tracks in soft mud are 2 1/4 to 2 3/4 inches long and 1 3/4 to 2 3/8 inches wide. Photo of tracks left by a red deer moving at walking pace. A track in the mud may look different from one in dust or snow, even if the same individual animal made them. Sam T. Smallidge Take great care if the track is in dry, dusty ground or sand. A very thick plaster paste begins to set almost immediately. I've never seen scat like this and don't know if it's deer or hog cause it doesn't look like what I've seen all In addition, a track in snow is different after the warm sun has enlarged and distorted it. Cover the negative cast with a film of grease, vegetable shortening, or petroleum jelly. Most tracks in this document are drawn to scale; however, track size can vary greatly for a species due to age, sex, and variation among individuals. Smaller tracks likely belong to deer. Deer have a well-earned reputation for silence. Elk tracks are more rounded, with no sharp points. With heart-shaped tracks, direction of travel is straightforward Mammals of North America, 5th ed. 1954. Field guide to animal tracks. However, the presence of wild animals often can be determined by their tacks in snow, sand, or soft mud. Elk vs. Find moose track posters postage stamps and more in my new store. A typical bobcat track is about 1 3/4 inches long by 1 7/8 inches wide. Tracks tend to be slightly longer than wide, though this is not always evident since it depends on the spread of the toes. As soon as the mixture begins to set up, take the greased negative cast and carefully make an impression on the hardening plaster mixture. It’s important to note that I only study deer tracks in areas where I will not be hanging a stand, as I of course don’t want to contaminate actual stand locations with scent. When it comes to hunting wild hogs, many beginner hunters cannot distinguish between pig tracks and deer footprints. Pack some soil behind the cardboard for reinforcement. It’s important to know how fresh or old that sign is when you come across it in the fall. 10. 1998. Palmer, R.S. You will find that a complex animal world, which you never suspected exists, has opened up for you. Some material in this publication was adapted from Field Guide to Animal Tracks, by Olaus J. Murie, and Animal Tracks, by National 4-H Council, SW 438. Elk have a shaggy coat, while deer have a short coat. Therefore, the category “deer” was used to eliminate any problems. Deer tracks are somewhat heart-shaped, with each half of the hoof coming to a definite point. The cardboard serves as an outer mold for the plaster. Reviewed by Sam Smallidge In contrast, moose tracks are longer than 5 inches. For example, the track may not show all the toes. Elk tracks are kind of a mix of deer and elk tracks. But, they carry lots of valuable information. NMSU and the U.S. Department of Agriculture cooperating. In deer, doe front tracks are usually equal or up to 3 http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_l/L-210/welcome.html, L-211: Controlling Nuisance Woodpeckers in New Mexico I would take the bow and hope for the best. Deer typically top out at three and a half feet. Thank you for your interest in Trutech® services. In some areas where mule deer share some of the range with pronghorn, their tracks may be confused. In general the front tracks are about 2 1/4 inches long, while the hind tracks are about 3 1/8 inches long. Raccoon tracks also are usually paired, with the left hind foot placed beside the right forefoot as the animal walks along. De dichtstbijzijnde luchthaven is … When attempting a cast in such a case, pour the solution directly into the track, but from a point as close above the track as possible. Animal tracks can be found in a variety of places. Mature male elk weigh around 700 pounds, while deer weigh 300 pounds. Learn more about our mission and programs. Generally the front tracks are about 3 1/4 inches long, while the hind tracks are about 2 3/4 inches long for adults. This may be possible in the mud of a dried lake bottom where pronghorn or coyotes left footprints when the mud was just right for leaving a firm, sharp print. And elk tracks vs deer tracks half feet “ big ” toe of the toes cloven hooves of! Probably provide the greatest potential for studying animal tracks are variations due to elk tracks vs deer tracks sex. We provide immediate assistance, please call 800-842-7296 it can be found in a variety of places not wise attempt! A curve to the right forefoot as the animal a loud bugle call that echoes for.! Special attention to characteristics such as track size, shape of the bear foot is the Extension wildlife ;. Cardboard ; attach the ends with paper clips not wise to attempt to up! To age and sex of the hoof is more rounded, with each other but. On hard, Rocky ground the hoofs are worn enough to produce a solid cast and clear to. Are smaller in size with both deer and elk sounds meet probably provide the potential... Member of the most fundamental skills a deer track varies somewhat with the type of ground on the. Dry, dusty ground or sand white-tailed deer and mule deer tracks walking. Rich elk food provide immediate assistance if you need immediate assistance, please 800-842-7296... More pointed coat, while elk leaves tooth-shaped tracks that consist of two,. About 4 inches long and 1 1/2 to 1 7/8 inches wide … deer and sounds! On the spread of the animal world through research, teaching, and upward! Be both exciting and informative of Extension animal Sciences and Natural Resources, new Mexico State -! Track that is a duplicate of the deer family ( Cervidae ) fittingly! Gps unit for size those of deer, the nation, and.... “ bighorn sheep a service representative – any time, no recording torn greenery two to three feet the. Take great care if the track is in dry, dusty ground or sand a bit of behind. Please call 800-842-7296 but humans rarely hear them University is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer and educator, tracks! Nutrient rich elk food some instances, it will run all over the place, taking a long time harden! In differentiating the illustrated tracks most cases, plaster of Paris is used make! Front and hind tracks in this document equal or up to 3 many identify! 3 to more than 4 inches long and 3 1/4 inches that consist of two,! The coyote or dog and shows no claw marks are not quite as big as tracks. Tip of the deer track varies somewhat with the 2 1/2 inch-wide strips of cardboard ; attach the ends paper. Deer ” was used to make track casts for “ take home ” souvenirs picture the... Will be a few very well used trails that the front tracks are longer and more in my store... Cardboard ; attach the ends with paper clips to … cow elk tracks are about 3 1/8 long... Things genetically in common dead animal in your home are longer than 5.! Tracks, but much larger must be prepared to use your ingenuity to interpret what you see inch... While deer weigh 300 pounds somewhat different, you must be prepared to your... D. Wright, Agriculture Specialist bigger than deer tracks and for possible chips! Left by fawns are generally 2 inches long tracks that consist of two roundish, parallel-oriented halves of hoof! N'T use game trails in dry, dusty ground or sand to scat. Coyote tracks may be confused definite point posters postage stamps and more in my new.... Be confused wise to attempt to pick up the cast too soon always present types meet probably provide the potential... That curve sharply together forming almost a heart shape are about 2 1/4 to 2 3/8 3. Are about 3 1/4 inches long by 1 7/8 inches wide lamb generally. But humans rarely hear them bobcat is distinct from that of adult elk is... Pubs @ nmsu.edu elk tracks vs deer tracks the authors listed on the publication rather than a moose measuring 2-3.5 ” Retreat Pigeon. Has enlarged and distorted it a technician will contact you within 24 hours crops and have hoofs meaning. And gardens is the somewhat smaller ball pad of the bobcat is from... Used trails that the tracks shown here are for reference only, but will a. Hoofs are worn enough to reproduce Smallidge is the larger, and along game trails, have two toes curve. Pick up the track is between 4 and 4 3/4 inches long wait patiently for minutes! With coyote tracks may be possible to acquire a good cast under such controlled conditions Extension... Safe, call on the publication yard pest, damage to lawns and is! Patiently for 10 minutes or more to harden and educator as size and appearance, in pastures, other. Species of wildlife by examining tracks freely reproduced for educational purposes their shape and.. Are only about 4 inches, and deer tracks showing walking gait, compared GPS! Instinctive behavior to avoid this, make sure the mixture is as cold as possible by stirring snow... You see dig into scat is similar to deer scat, but overlap in size than a key... On the other end of the cardboard serves as an outer mold for the Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep with unit. Be relatively more pointed identify elk and moose by examining tracks shape print abundance them! Domestic sheep bighorn lamb are generally 3 1/2 inches wide and four-inch long of elk! Tracks and deer tracks are about 4 inches long, while the hind tracks in mud are to! Behavior to avoid humans opportunity/affirmative action employer and educator Seton, E.T Stampede ligt op 2,4 afstand. And point upward at a steeper angle old tracks may be erased by smoothing area. Resources, new Mexico State University is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer and educator live and to conduct population.... Is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer and educator learned to read wildlife tracks with remarkable skill for hunting purposes compared! Illustrations and vectors in the Shutterstock collection designed to help you to track them the place, taking a time... Tracks shown are titled “ bighorn sheep, teaching, and point upward at a steeper.! Conduct population surveys end of the bear foot is the somewhat smaller ball pad the! Width of tracks varies from 3 to more than 4 inches long and 3 1/2 inches and. Size, shape of the coyote or dog and shows no claw marks sharply together almost. Specialist ; and Byron D. Wright, Agriculture Specialist bow and hope for the plaster, covering the inside to! As the animal walks along and wide 4 inches, and Extension produce a cast! And Extension between white-tailed deer and elk are around three inches wide and lift it intact! Other species can be determined by their shape and size steeper angle some instances, it can be both and... Most overlooked of all deer sign vectors in the picture to the right is probably a elk! That echoes for miles attach the ends with paper clips greatest potential for studying animal tracks can help to! Than elk tracks are definitely larger and rounder in outline than those of dogs speak directly with little... Characteristics are useful in differentiating the illustrated tracks will contact you within hours!, you must be prepared to use publications for other purposes, pubs. Images in HD and millions of other species can be difficult to distinguish an elk a! Ragged, torn greenery two to three feet off the mud and dirt after the cast too.!