Bryn, Jim, Here’s an analysis of one of the horizontal edges in the target with the a7RIV shutter set to mechanical, electronic first curtain (EFCS) and fully electronic (what Sony calls Silent Shooting). Sony a7RII EFCS & silent shutter sharpness, Sony a7RII EFCS & silent shutter sharpness | The Last Word. In between, there is a point where the resonant frequencies of the camera/lens/head/tripod assembly conspired to do damage to image sharpness. Unfortunately mounting a big, heavy lens like the 280/4 to the front of the camera unsupported is a recipe for damaging the lens mount. Sony a7R II Silent Shooting was possible because data streams off the a7R II Back-Illuminated Sensor 3.5 times faster than previous Sony sensors. Thanks for your hard work on exploring this camera! Fuji X-H1 vs. Fuji X-T3? The filter: Heliopan 77mm variable neutral density. Bryn, Thanks Jim! Granted it is used, but is that normal? Other camera models . Whats the best fix for me? Not much difference between silent shutter and EFCS. With your infinite amount of time and desire to investigate cameras for the whims of the internet…. The lighting: a single Fotodiox LED-200WA-56 daylight balanced flood. Second, the vibrations from the exposure one second before the current one may not have completely died away. Not until you get to very high attenuation. I suspect it’s because the a7RII drops to 12 bit precision in silent shutter mode and the read noise picks up. I am playing around with the camera and when I stared taking pictures, the shutter button is soft and not very tactile like my previous a6000. I can’t explain this. If you own the very laud Sony A7r than you may be really interested how much more silent the new A7rII shutter is. “ The shutter unit is suspended with five springs so they act as a shock absorber when the shutter is pressed. In my first run of tests, I ran into two serious issues, either one of which would have made me have to throw out all the data and start over. Image processing for in-camera histograms, Making the in-camera histogram closely represent the raw histogram, Leica 90/2 Apo-Summicron ASPH-M on GFX 50S. Just looking at this post though, it suggests: For A7R3, ECFS is great and has no issues. Fearing that initial errors in manual focusing could make comparisons between cameras difficult, I chose to use autofocus. This is a harder test for the mechanical shutter than yesterday’s, since using the lens collar as the tripod mounting point allows the camera to move more than mounting the camera body directly to the tripod. Be among the first to get the latest Sony news in your inbox. But hey, there is no sun there so let them enjoy the camera as first :) Details follow. Specifically, the silent shooting option is only available when shooting still images in the P, A, S, or M shooting modes. I put the Leica 280mm f/4 Apo-Telyt-R on both the a7R and a7RII, mounted the lens collar to an Arca Swiss C1 head on a set of RRS TVC-43 legs, set the whole thing on a vinyl tile over 6 inch concrete floor, and made some slanted edge photographs at various shutter speeds. So I took some pictures using RAW, uncompressed, silent shutter mode and no flash. In fact, it works so well that going all the way to silent shutter mode doesn’t bring any significant improvement on single shots, although it almost certainly would on a series of exposures made in a short period. The impact on the image quality is barely noticeable. For A7R4, ECFS takes care of a lot of shutter stock but if you have a static object, a pure Electronic Shutter is sharper than ECFS. Looks like the a7RII mechanical shutter is a bit better than the a7R one. Some lucky coincidence of adapter/lens/whatever having a suitable resonance frequency (on this particular implementation of the mount), so that all the energy of vibrations goes into a mode which does not affect the quality of the photo? There’s lots to love about the new Sony a7RII including upgrades to the original a7R of 5-Axis image stabilization found on a7II, Silent Shooting mode found on a7S and Electronic Front Curtain Shutter (EFS) found on every a7-series camera – except the original Sony a7R. Photography meets digital computer technology. A7RII - Banding issues in silent shutter mode: We had some school activity this weekend. First, I’ll drag you through the protocol. a7RIV vs a7RIII IBIS performance at 135 mm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper. When running silent, the mechanical shutter is on vacation: the sensor does all the work. Then I said “what the hey” and made a series in portrait orientation. Released five years after the original A7, the Sony A7III marks the third generation of Sony’s ‘entry’ level full-frame mirrorless camera series. With Fuji, the sensor has IBIS but in the GFX100 and X-H1: How fast is the Sony a7RIV silent shutter. How fast is the Sony a7RIV silent shutter? This can obviously prove useful in sensitive situations, but it is not without issue. -In silent shooting it exposes, but it's a very black frame.-> I tried turning silent shooting off and taking a shot and got "camera error, cycle power please", which remained even after the camera had been switched off. With electronic shutter, there’s the lease vibration of all because no part of the shutter assembly moves either before, durning, or after the shutter is released. As a total aside, why can’t all lens collars have crisp detents every ninety degrees like this Leica lens? Any photo editing software will damage this data. The second was an unplanned side effect of a well-meaning decision. And two readers from UK confirmed that they will get their A7rII preorder from Wex UK on July 30 already! Does an audibly quiet shutter translate into less shutter shock? That EFCS line appears too good to be true, but I double-checked the data. That mostly affects lower shutter speeds. So for underwater shooting in the 1/30th – 1/200th range, it seems like it would be better to use EFCS to keep 13 bits (since all the data is in narrow band of the blue) and the speed isn’t fast enough to cause shutter exposure unevenness. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. Somewhere, I thought I read that you have used CameraWest before and if so, that gets you access to the M10 cameras. The vertical axis is average, or mean, or mu of the MTF50 (the spatial frequency where the modulation transfer function is 50%) measures in cycles per picture height. It’s real close, but the EFCS actually appears to be a hair better than the silent shutter. Fortunately, there was a workaround: turn off live view before tripping the shutter. But there are unfortunately some limitations you should be aware of. I thought you were tough. In fact, it works so well that going all the way to silent shutter mode doesn’t bring any significant improvement on single shots, although it almost certainly would on a series of exposures made in a short period. Measure MTF50 in Imatest . Does the additional of the battery grip fix the problem? Unfortunately, in many cases, the shot-to-shot scatter due to autofocus errors was at least as large as the effect I was trying to measure, making it hard to make sense of the results. When running silent, the mechanical shutter is open and the sensor does all the work. In order to get 13 bits, I have to avoid bulb, and continuous drive, is there anything else I have to avoid? The EFCS on the a7RII works great. Not much to choose between the a7R and a7RII mechanical shutters, or between the EFCS and the silent shutter. The bad news? That’s easier on the mechanical shutter than portrait orientation, since tripods are stiffer in the up and down direction than they are from side to side. Le Sony A7R II est donc le premier COI Sony à enregistrer en 4K Télé (3 840 x 2 160 px) sur carte en XAVC-S. Il intègre également le format XAVC-S pour l'enregistrement HDTV 1080. Self timer set to 5 seconds on the a7RII and 10 seconds on the a7R. Jim – on the A7RIV, does silent shooting/silent shutter reduce bit depth in single shot mode or does it remain at 14 bits? Your email address will not be published. I did not use portrait orientation, which would accentuate the effects of the shutter motions on the a7x cameras, since I don’t yet have an L-bracket for the a7RIV. All full frame E-mount cameras (except for the A7r) feature an electronic shutter in addition to the mechanical shutter. In this case it’s 1/125 second. What’s wrong with conventional lens screening? So far everything is working as expected. I processed all the files in Lightroom, with white balance set to flash, sharpening and noise reduction turned off, and all other settings at default. The shock absorber also contributes to quietness of the shutter.”. The a7RIV lines are better because, due to its finer pitch, the camera has a smaller pixel aperture. (50hz through most of the rest of the world). ... Press the MENU button → (Shooting) → Shutter/Silent → Shutter Type → Electronic Shutter. What’s wrong with conventional lens screening? That’s because the bulk of the motion imparted to a tripod mounted mirrorless camera with no added delay between winding the shutter and firing the first curtain comes from the winding action, not the motion of the first curtain. Making your Sony a7iii shoot silently isn’t available in every shooting mode, and not every feature is available when you turn the silent shooting on (more on that below). Here’s the mechanical shutter data for both cameras: The heavy lines are the means of the MTF50s. Any suggestions? Or is it simply muffling the transmission of the shock to the photographer’s ears? Above 1/160 second, you can throw a blanket over all the curves. An aside: I’m curious if you notice any measurable image degradation with the variable neutral density Heliopan 77mm filter. The vertical axis is average, or mean, or mu of the MTF50 (the spatial frequency where the modulation transfer function is 50%) measures in cycles per picture height. Maybe the sun and moon and stars aligned so that there was vibration cancellation. That is especially true for a big lens which has a relatively low resonant frequency compared to a small one. Exposure protocol: ND filter to minimum attenuation,, shutter to 1/500, make an exposures, ND filter down a third of a stop, shutter down a third of a stop, make another exposures… until you get to 1/10 second. Silent Shooting is a camera feature that allows you to shoot images without the sound created by the mechanical shutter. Required fields are marked *. With this, vibration is not transmitted to other devices inside the camera. The EFCS on the a7RII works great. I’ve run into some difficulties. Point of clarification, does the bracketing mode (sort of continuous drive) drop to 12 bits? Or do I need kryptonite machined weight screwed to the arse of the A7r to stop the shake? Excellent stuff, Jim. The cameras: the Sony a7RII and Sony a7R. The effect on images may vary depending on the camera model and camera settings. The grey curve is the a7RII with EFCS on, and the yellow curve is the a7Rii with silent shutter on. Banding with silent shutter on Sony A7riii at 1/640 Artificial light is not actually “constant” but has a frequency. Silent shooting with the Sony A7R III is impressively, well, silent. How come? The larger pixel size of the a7RIII will smooth things out, but it shouldn’t happen to that extent. What’s up with that?     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper Here it is. Your email address will not be published. The following camera models have an added electronic sound that is always on. Brace yourself. The lighter ones are the means plus the standard deviations (mu + sigma, in statistician-speak) and the means minus the standard deviations. I think the main reason is that I couldn’t get far enough away from the target. I focused once on the target and made all subsequent exposures (about 500 of them) with each camera without changing the focus. A few days ago, I set out to measure the shutter shock of the a7RIII and a7RIV. Although Sony said that they increased the damping of the a7RII shutter over that of the a7R (and I have no reason to disbelieve them) with a long lens like this it doesn’t make much difference. When shooting with the mechanical shutter all previous Sony Cameras had a little lag in the EVF display, the A7RIII is the first Sony camera to offer a fully lag free shooting with the mechanical shutter . I don’t know why the a7RIII looks so good here. The lens: the Leica 280mm f/4 Apo-Telyt-R. Shutter shock was the band of the a7R because it had no EFCS. While most of them only offer an “electronic first curtain shutter” the A7s(II) and and A7rII even offer a completely silent, purely electronic shutter. With the a7RII, i used the mechanical shutter for one set of images, the electronic first-curtain shutter (EFCS)  for another, and the all-electronic — silent — shutter for a third. Here’s an analysis of one of the horizontal edges in the target with the a7RIV shutter set to mechanical, electronic first curtain (EFCS) and fully electronic (what Sony calls Silent Shooting). Second, on most MILC cameras these days, shutter shock is mostly academic, since EFCS is available. Then I analyzed the statistics of the sets. A data point on Leicas and shutter shock. I have not tested the M10, but I had an M240 for several years, and it had a lot of shutter shock and no EFCS. ECFS changes the appearance of bokeh so it is not a freebie, although the benefits generally outweigh the deficits. If the motor is suspended, it will, and will have the additional advantage of not unsettling the IBIS system in cameras so equipped. WHen the a7RII came out, shutter shock was no longer much of an issue not because there was a lot less of it with the mechanical shutter, but because it had EFCS. This is because the side-to-side vibrations take longer to die away, and all but the first shots are affected by the shots that came before, and mostly by the shot that came immediately before. I lit my slanted edge target with an Aputure 120d II LED light with a 12-inch parabolic reflector mounted and the light set to 5500K. Now let’s look at the vertical edge, first for the a7RIV: Now, except for the electronic shutter case, we see blurring at longer shutter speeds. Cheers, […] data in yesterday’s post was pretty noisy, but it seemed to indicate that somehow the silent shutter mode on the Sony alpha 7 […], Your email address will not be published. Photography wins -- most of the time. Check out the video above! If you’ve been using Sony cameras for any length of time, you know how clunky it can get. Damn lucky guys those brits! I went over the data several times, and double checked the EXIF information to make sure the cameras were set up the way I thought they were, and reran Imatest on another horizontal edge, but I didn’t find anything untoward. Using a remote release and A exposure mode, I made 16 exposures about 1 second apart at each setting with the light adjusted to give me shutter speeds of. Photography wins -- most of the time. IBIS and shutter shock usually don’t play well together. Sony a7rII Shutter Button Soft? You’ll notice that there has been a gap in my nearly-daily postings, and it’s not for lack of trying. Your email address will not be published. In the next picture, which is the same graph except the data is from the a7RIII exposures, you’ll see a situation where that isn’t true at all. Testing and demonstrating the Sony A7II shutter sound next to the Sony A7s, which was the quietest shutter in the A7 series, until now. Restrictions when using the Silent Shooting mode Silent Shooting is available when the Mode dial is set to P, A, S or M. Out of concern for focus shift during 500-shot series, I put away the 135 mm f/2.8 Batis native E-mount lens, and took out a 135 mm /f2 Zeiss Apo-Sonnar F-mount lens and a Kipon F-to-E adapter. Third, in the testing that Mike Collette performed on the a7R, the main source of the vibration came not from the release of the shutter curtains, but by the winding of the shutter, which occurs after the shutter release is pressed in mechanical shutter mode, but (obviously) before the first curtain is released. Required fields are marked *. Testing and demonstrating the Sony A7II shutter slap sound next to the Sony A7s, which was the quietest shutter in the A7 series, until now. But Iwould prefer the stop the shake! First, I’ll drag you through the protocol. How to Set Up Silent Shutter Mode on Your Sony a6500. Image processing for in-camera histograms, Making the in-camera histogram closely represent the raw histogram, Leica 90/2 Apo-Summicron ASPH-M on GFX 50S. -Yes, shutter is visible and appears fully 'closed', covering the entire sensor. How does the GFX100 compare to the GFX50? Thought so. Just like the Nikon Z6 and Z7 and Canon EOS R. But there are specific differences which might affect your decision about which camera best suits your needs. I actually thought the XH1 has sharper images than the XPro2/XT2 due to the damped shutter but it would be interesting to see if your advanced measurements support that hypothesis that cameras with spring balanced shutters are superior to the A7R3. Re EFCS vs Silent performance: I don’t think a 1 bit difference in the encoding at these contrast ratios should affect MTF results obtained through the slanted edge method. (Leica). What ‘s the difference in terms of mechanical parts that move between the two modes? The blue curve is the a7R, and the red the a7RII with the mechanical shutter engaged. I don’t normally test it these days, and only did so in the present instance because someone claimed that the shutter shock of the a7RIV was much less than that of the a7RIII. Unless the motor is suspended with the shutter, any spring system isn’t going to help with that. If each cycle is 1/120 second, that means the silent shutter takes 12/120, or 0.1 seconds to scan the whole frame. The horizontal axis is the inverse of the shutter speed: if you see 160, it means 1/160 second. Photography meets digital computer technology. The a7RIII takes about 1/15 second to do the scan, so we’re going backwards here, thanks to the higher pixel count of the a7RIV. This lens doesn’t appear to be as sharp as the 180/3.4. First, the second curtain itself induces vibration. Unlike my previous camera the Canon 5D Mark III, which has a silent mode that is quiet, the Sony is actually silent. Crop, export as TIFFs, analyze for horizontal edge (that’s the edge perpendicular to the way the shutter travels) for the landscape shots, and vertical edge (that’s the edge perpendicular to the way the shutter travels)for the portrait shots. The only part that might be a little confusing is navigating the camera’s menu system. The first was just a dumb move on my part: I accidentally left IBIS on in both cameras, even though they were mounted on a tripod. You can't turn off the shutter sound because these models are only equipped with a mechanical shutter. Even if [Silent Shooting] is set to [On], it will not be completely silent. This tool will provide the number of shutter actuations that the camera has made up to the file in question. Even if [ Silent Shooting] is set to [On] , the operating sound of the aperture and focus will sound. IBIS stiffness when not engaged? The tension of each of these five springs is different because the impact on each of the 5 points is different when the shutter is pressed. Hi guys, so I just got the Sony a7rii from KEH that I posted about earlier this week. The Sony alpha 7 Mark II (aka a7RII) has a silent shutter mode. Silent Shooting mode uses an electronic rolling shutter, and yes, Sony a7S has Silent Shooting Mode but it’s 12mp sensor means much less data needs to steam from the electronic rolling shutter. The availability of EFCS has pushed shutter shock way down in my testing priority list. Leica M10 vs M10-D? ? There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series; just look for “A7RIV”. Camera on an RRS TVC-43 with an Arca Swiss C1 head, RRS L brackets on the cameras, but not used for mounting. Back to square one, I tried again. Setting up silent shutter on your a6500 is very simple to do. This mostly affects higher shutter speeds. I suspect the same. At high shutter speeds, there is little blur because the camera doesn’t have much time to move while the shutter is open. In the United States and Canada, artificial light has a frequency of 60hz. The dark blue line is for the mechanical shutter, and the blue dots are the measured points.The mechanical shutter curve behaves pretty much as expected. Amazing!!! Manual focusing wide open, then lens set to f/6.9 (halfway between f/5.6 and f/8). By Louis Ferreira | Published: March 8, 2018. Even if a quantization error were introduced it would look like additional noise in the Edge Spread Function, which would show up as modulation of the results: but here the average is consistently lower. SONY Alpha shutter/image counter. This is one in a series of posts on the Sony alpha 7 R Mark IV (aka a7RIV). When shooting still images using the [ Silent Shooting] function with low ISO sensitivity, if you point the camera at a very bright light source, high intensity areas on the monitor may be recorded in darker tones. I note shooting over 1/150sec is ok from my tests. ONLY ORIGINAL JPG or ARW files STRAIGHT from the camera will work. Develop in Lightroom 5.7.1 with standard settings. This contaminated the results, especially those at low shutter speeds. Thanks! I set the compression to none, the ISO to 100, the lens to f/4 and mounted the cameras in landscape orientation in turn to a 5-section Gitzo travel tripod with a light RRS ball head, using adapter plates on the body of the cameras, which is the most stable location with the cameras in landscape orientation. First off, I don’t test cameras and other equipment that I have no interest in using. With EFCS, there’s less vibration because the camera doesn’t have to wind and release the shutter just before the exposure. The first series of images was made with the camera in landscape orientation. At low speeds, most of the vibrations have damped down during most of the time the shutter is open, so there’s not much blur. Both the Sony A7iii and Sony A9 / A9ii offer a silent / electronic shutter. There are  two possible reasons, and they both probably play a part. May it be That’s 100 milliseconds, or 1/10 second. 0" 921. You want the good news or the bad news first? And I don’t usually — with one exception that I can think of when I thought I had a bad copy of the CO 60/4 macro and rented another copy from Roger at LensRentals — rent or borrow equipment, because I don’t like to feel rushed when I’m testing gear. Since you do have a GFX100, it would be interesting to see how the data plots out. The effect of this countermeasure is astounding. Lens collar mounted to head with RRS generic plate. The A7Ii … Camera Labs gives us our first look at how well the Sony a7III electronic shutter works and it’s not much better than other cameras so the Sony a7III electronic shutter should be reserved for subjects not in motion. I know you don’t shoot APS-C but given your relationship with your camera dealer and the common pixel design between the XT3, A7R4, GFX100 it would be interesting to see shutter shock at a pixel level comparison and I am sure the dealer would lend you the XT3 and a 80Macro for a day. How fast is the Sony a7RIV silent shutter? The a7RIII has a silent shutter mode. Sadly I have an A7r and don’t feel inclined to fork out 3k for the Mk2 version at this point. Sony a7III: Mechanical Shutter vs Silent, Interview, Time-Lapse, Rolling Shutter and More. I think the main mechanism for this was the IBIS recentering the sensor after it had been decentered by its attempt to deshakify (that’s a technical term) the previous exposure. 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